Weapons to be used during the occupation of our new homeland

On note of close-quarters weapons, I think people get too wrapped up in discussing which weapon is right for a given situation. I'm all for knife training, tomahawk training, and even improvised weapon training (like E-Tools and pieces of re-bar), but I think the most efficient choice in an operational setting is still your main firearm.

It's something that isn't taught a lot in the American military (besides a bit in the MCMAP curriculum and bayonet charging in Army basic [they still do that right?]), but is taught extensively in the more Operator career fields. Realistically, you shouldn't be dropping your rifle --even if it's slung-- to draw your machete and engage in melee (unless you happen to be the last soldier on your side at the end of a Deadliest Warrior Slytherin simulation). Even if you are completely blind-sided by a guy and you intend to take him alive, your rifle/handgun is a VERY effective striking/blocking/parrying tool.

Training these skills obviously requires a partner, and since Blue Guns are stupid expensive (although HIGH quality) you can use your actual gun in the training. Now I would assume that you aren't worried about scratching the finish on your weapon, because otherwise you wouldn't be using it to operate. An alternative is of course using a supple stick. I know for some this will make you feel stupid, but any training is better than a lack of it. I wouldn't recommend using cheap airsoft guns because we broke too many of those back in the day just using them for their intended purpose (but if you have a full-metal AEG that's been in the closet for years, that might be worth the sacrifice).

There are only a few real attacks possible with a rfirearm. They can be summed up as: muzzle strike, raking, butt-stroke (no homo) and tying-up (or grappling).

Muzzle-strikes are the main attack you would need to know.

Butt-stroking is only really useful if a guy tries to get you form behind and you can't turn quick enough to get the muzzle pointed his way, a target has already grabbed your weapon and is in control of the muzzle, or if YOU have the drop on your target.

Raking is normally the follow-up to a parried attack whereby you basically slash at the target's face with the front-sight/muzzle.

Parrying needs to be practiced because too often the operator allows his forward hand to be hit by whatever attack the target has thrown (he forgets his hand wraps around the weapon).

When engaged in a close-quarters altercation in which the target has already initiated H2H, don't try to shoulder your weapon. Tuck the stock between your hip and armpit and have the muzzle pointing at an angle that would facilitate shooting the target in the upper-chest (we call it a modified-high-ready, not to be confused with the Army's marching high-ready). From this position, you can either simply fire your gun, or initiate a muzzle-strike with more force than from any other position. This is how we enter rooms as well during CQB: we take our turn in the doorway and then punch the weapon out to our corner.
With a pistol, you should have it drawn into your chest (whether Isosceles or CAR) as this position allows the most force for a muzzle-strike while still facilitating accurate fire within 10 feet.
This position also allows for a good measure of weapon retention (for both long arm and pistol) as the target must draw closer to engage in H2H than if you were presenting the weapon in front of you.

Competency with any given weapon is all about theory and repetition. Much how weight-lifting is all about the cardinal barbell lifts, fighting comes down to who practiced their basics more (followed circumstantially by initiative and surprise).

Here's a video showcasing some good theory about retention and defense:
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Pros
-The Target seems like he gives a damn
-The Operator uses his weapon for striking in whatever way possiblefor a given scenario
-The Operator doesn't get fixated on his weapon when he is engaged, he has the presence of mind to strike when the Target ties up both hands
-Leg Sweeps are utilized (a maneuver I feel is undervalued)
-The techniques are showcased in full kit, suggesting simplicity

Cons
-Because it's a family-atmosphere, all of the techniques are rated PG (neither the Operator nor the Target use an eye-gouge, nut-strike or ear-box, staples of street-fighting)
-The Operator is not wearing Head-pro so he can speak to the audience, meaning the Target will predictably never employ strikes during the demonstration
-The entire event is geared toward solutions that do not involve shooting. Realize that shooting from an improvised position might be the more appropriate course of action in a given scenario
-No walls or real-world obstacles present

Vz. 2008 Sporter
Any pistol I get my hands on between then and now.

Will pick up the first Vz. 58 or AK-47 with a Type I receiver.

Boost wrote:Vz. 2008 Sporter
Any pistol I get my hands on between then and now.

Will pick up the first Vz. 58 or AK-47 with a Type I receiver.

Nothing wrong with VZ's, but I think more guys have AK's thus I recommend the AK over the VZ. Why does this matter? Mag sharing, spare parts, training practices and common(unity) knowledge.

Pendrake wrote:

Boost wrote:Vz. 2008 Sporter
Any pistol I get my hands on between then and now.

Will pick up the first Vz. 58 or AK-47 with a Type I receiver.

Nothing wrong with VZ's, but I think more guys have AK's thus I recommend the AK over the VZ. Why does this matter? Mag sharing, spare parts, training practices and common(unity) knowledge.

Pretty much this, the VZ is great, but the proprietary magazines (availability) would be a huge problem.

Would it be possible to get a Vz to use steel AK magazines?

Is it solely proprietary or could someone mill an adapter for the Vz?

I believe Krebs made a prototype STANAG magazine adapter for an AK series.

Would you have to modify, order or make a receiver if an adapter is out of the question?

Boost wrote:Would it be possible to get a Vz to use steel AK magazines?

From all of the reading I just did, the cost of modifying a Vz would put it at the same cost as an Arsenal. I would just recommend an M10 or an AES-10B (unless you have the money an Arsenal, then be my guest as I <3 mine).

My biggest problem is finding AK mags ANYWHERE. I have a pile of about 14 AR magazines (including 2 or 3 still in plastic) that I've accumulated from work (magazines are considered consumables in Naval Special Warfare), but I can't find a fucking AK mag (that isn't price gouged to shit) to save my life. Plenty of Glock magazines though.

Pendrake wrote:

Boost wrote:Would it be possible to get a Vz to use steel AK magazines?

From all of the reading I just did, the cost of modifying a Vz would put it at the same cost as an Arsenal. I would just recommend an M10 or an AES-10B (unless you have the money an Arsenal, then be my guest as I <3 mine).

My biggest problem is finding AK mags ANYWHERE. I have a pile of about 14 AR magazines (including 2 or 3 still in plastic) that I've accumulated from work (magazines are considered consumables in Naval Special Warfare), but I can't find a fucking AK mag (that isn't price gouged to shit) to save my life. Plenty of Glock magazines though.

So, is that just the cost of modifying or is it the rifle + modification?

I was given a Vz 2008 Sporter, no reason to let it sit, let alone pay for another rifle. I've also already invested some money into it, getting rid of the bakelite furniture and getting an ACE limited AKFX stock and stock adapter for it.

Boost wrote:
So, is that just the cost of modifying or is it the rifle + modification?

I was given a Vz 2008 Sporter, no reason to let it sit, let alone pay for another rifle. I've also already invested some money into it, getting rid of the bakelite furniture and getting an ACE limited AKFX stock and stock adapter for it.

Yeah I was just modifying my post because I read your intro. Modifying a Vz to take AK mags requires an overhaul of the receiver, which can run you a few hundred dollars.

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I'd say it's worth inquiring into at a local gunsmith or maybe emailing some more professional ones about, but don't get too wrapped around the axle regarding common magazines. This isn't just to you, but to everyone:
If you already own a reliable gun, then just run with it. Not everyone is going to have an AK or an AR or a FAL, and I imagine people will have common pistols in even fewer instances. As often as you might think you'll run completely dry on ammo and need to borrow a mag, if it's to that point of the contact we need to be running and not making a last-stand.

Pendrake wrote:

Boost wrote:
So, is that just the cost of modifying or is it the rifle + modification?

I was given a Vz 2008 Sporter, no reason to let it sit, let alone pay for another rifle. I've also already invested some money into it, getting rid of the bakelite furniture and getting an ACE limited AKFX stock and stock adapter for it.

Yeah I was just modifying my post because I read your intro. Modifying a Vz to take AK mags requires an overhaul of the receiver, which can run you a few hundred dollars.

"I can't post this link for 7 days"

I'd say it's worth inquiring into at a local gunsmith or maybe emailing some more professional ones about, but don't get too wrapped around the axle regarding common magazines. This isn't just to you, but to everyone:
If you already own a reliable gun, then just run with it. Not everyone is going to have an AK or an AR or a FAL, and I imagine people will have common pistols in even fewer instances. As often as you might think you'll run completely dry on ammo and need to borrow a mag, if it's to that point of the contact we need to be running and not making a last-stand.

From the discussion in the link:
"The vz.58 mag is made from aluminium and has somewhat bigger dimensions compared to 30 round steel AK mag. The mag well of vz.58 is wider compared to AK. I've seen few 75 round RPK drums converted for use in vz.58."

Now I'm interested in this. Beyond the availability of those drums, I'd really like to at least have the option, would it be easier than to modify the receiver. Or would I still have to modify the receiver to fit those drum mags or are the drums themselves modified.

Thanks for all the help so far.

Took a lot of thought for this one

Grunt's loadout
Primary
>WASR 10 (because come on, everyone else is gonna have autos too)
Sidearm
>Makorov
Other
>Molotov made of vodka and candle wax

long range
>Nugget. Scope must be earned by X number of kebabs removed
Sidearm
>CZ 75

Ordinance
>RPG with "Kebab seeking missiles" written on the rockets
Second primary
>Nugget
Other
>a bunch of m80s taped to a bottle rocket and a fucking long coil and a big ass plunger (optional ear plugs)

Officers/Captains/Comanders
Primary
>Obrez
Other
>old Soviet hat, must also weigh over 250 pounds and must have a large bottle of Vodka at all times on duty with a thick Russian accent because AH MOTHERLAND

Leader/president/dictator
>Deagle in .50 babby seeking rounds in high capacity clipazines

And every wave we attack with must be started with our national anthem playing louder than the guns when they shoot, which is obviously Serbia Strong